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Controversy- Paul Trowe on the Two guys


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#21 Johnathon

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 11:37 PM

Don't really know much about anything that's going on with this, and I will resist the urge to place this scenario within one of those metaphorical 'boxes' I have collected, so that I can scrutinize it, despite that to me it seems all too classic of a scenario.

Enough rambling.

I will say this much: everything about the Two Guys, what they've done, what they're doing (and the way they're doing it), and what they can do is reason for excitement and anticipation of great things. Their spoken as well as unspoken language shines of true artistic desire and ability, and for the implied reasons which can make something like game designing so great. I believe them to be very inspired for what they've set out to do, and their actions speak to me that they have something great up their sleeves. They've got moxie.

I find this to be one of those scenarios where another's criticism speaks even more of the victims' potential and ability to be envied than it does of the offender's incompetence.

In other words, I suppose I could say to Mr. Trowe, "because they have the choice and they can do what they see fit with it, with or without your understanding or approval of it."
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#22 Spikey

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 11:48 PM

I tried to keep my own opinion kind of quiet, because I know a lot of people involved with this, but I agree with nearly 100% of what has been said. great posts. And Jess (Jedi) did sum it up perfectly. Kudos, Jess, and as FM80 said in another thread, please revive "Apropos of Something".

Probably the only thing I can say in regret that they didn't build a super-company is that perhaps Space Quest would be under that umbrella, rather than starting on something new. But perhaps it is still an option if SpaceVenture is a success.

I guess if we don't like how it turns out, we can always get in the timepod and go back to the Space Quest VII time period, right? ;)

EDIT: I will also say that as much as I admire Paul Trowe's vision, I don't like his divisive remarks, and I can see what someone said about a "Ken Williams" complex.
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#23 DeepFriedOrat

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 05:18 AM

Honestly, and this is just my opinion, I believe no matter what happens we are both going to have some great and wonderful games (on both sides!). Whether or not "The Two Guys" join up with Replay Games Inc. or not, I am absolutely excited to see some creativity on both parties!!! Truthfully, I would love to see a Sierra 2.0 (I mean who wouldn't??) ;) , but no matter what it's a great time be a die-hard adventure gamer! B)

#24 MusicallyInspired

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 05:44 AM

In this day and age, Scott and Mark don't need Ken Williams, Paul Trowe or some suit from Activision breathing down their necks and potentially stifling their creativity. They can finally retain total control over their upcoming products. I don't want to disrespect Al or Josh, but if I were a developer, I would go for Scott and Mark's approach.


Paul Trowe has nothing to do with ActiVision, aside from the fact that he's trying to get the old Sierra IP licenses from them.
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#25 Monolith_Pig

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:59 AM

http://i150.photobuc...0/PaulTrowe.jpg

And still he continues.... In all honesty I never saw the orginal Paul Trowe comment on Kens personal facebook page, seems Ken might have deleted it :) But still Paul persues a response - even though the Sierra Alums page is open to a number of Sierra fans like myself.

Too bad, it shows Paul Trowe up in a pretty bad light. He is blissfully ignorent to this thread and I think we should keep it like this. I'm pretty sure all the other ex-Sierra/replay team think he's being a massive douche.

Kudos to Josh for telling Ken Allen to do the music for this game. I'd love that too!
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#26 Spikey

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 12:31 PM

Note Ken Allen's subtle "positive and nothing but fun" comment ;)

I'm not trying to incite a riot, or anything. I just think that news like this should be covered so we know what the history is- that Replay wanted 2Guys, that they didn't sign on board, and so forth.
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#27 MusicallyInspired

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 02:22 PM

Ken Allen is doing the music? This is just getting better and better!
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#28 Monolith_Pig

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 02:44 PM

Ken Allen is doing the music? This is just getting better and better!


Not confirmed yet...but he is being interviewed on the next podcast and has said himself he would love to work on the new space venture - citing some of his best work being on Space Quest.

Lets hope they get Ken on board!
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#29 Paul Trowe

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:27 PM

Wow, you kids really like to just make stuff up, don't you? So, considering all of you don't know any of the real facts about what's been going on, why don't you just ask Scott Murphy why a) they canceled Space Quest 7 B) why him and pretty much everybody at Sierra fell out of grace with Scott except myself and Leslie Balfour c) when nobody in the entire world would talk to him, I hosted him at my house in Austin, Texas and paid for him to go skydiving because he didn't have the funds d) protected him from this woman named Elizaberh Whitener who was trying to exploit him while he was in Austin, and e) personally encouraged Scott to make amends with Mark, Robin Bradley, and pretty much everybody else he ruined his personal relationships with.

So while you continue to bash me with no evidence at all, just pure conjecture, know this: I'm the one who told Scott he should get back together with Mark and do another Space Quest. Suddenly I never hear from him and the next thing I know I'm getting a cease and desist letter from someone I helped pull out of the gutter, LITERALLY.

Go ahead, rant and rave about me. I realize you guys have nothing better to do, but those are the facts. If you want me to go on a Pod Cast with either one or both of them I'm perfectly willing to do that. This will be my only post.

It's very easy to take cheap shots at somebody behind their back, and it's also pretty low.

If anybody knows me, they know what kind of person I am and how altruistic my intentions are. So go ahead, poke all the fun you want....
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#30 pcj

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:59 PM

Dang, dude. Part of me wants to apologize for any unfair accusations made about you*. But then I go and re-read your post. I think I understand why Scott and Mark are going it alone.

I just hope it's all a big misunderstanding. Best of luck to you on LSL and any other games you work on.

*Absolutely, if anything said above is untrue then by all means please forgive us. But this is a public forum, nobody should post here with the intent to go behind someone's back, and most of the statements made seem to be based on posts you made on Facebook, which if you wanted to keep private, probably wasn't the best place for it. Perhaps all of the statements being made in this thread are wrong - but you're still not handling it very graciously, which in turns leads to people still not thinking highly of you, etc - just saying.
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#31 Monolith_Pig

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:20 AM

Paul, thank you for your response.

My two favorite Sierra series of all time have been Space Quest & Leisure Suit Larry. I have contributed to the Larry Kickstarter and am so excited about what you, Al and the rest at Replay are going to bring us.

This is a public forum howver and not a mud slinging match. What you posted on facebook was bound to be viewable by a number of sierra fans and questions were bound to be raised on forums like this.

In terms of me making the assumption that all the other guys thought you were a massive douche? Maybe I'm wrong. But my belief is that if there's bad blood between you and someone else, you keep it between yourselves and don't target them on facebook. I'm sure the general consensus amongst your colleagues was that you needed to bite your (metaphorical) tounge with the facebook comments.

Oh and considering Mark, Scott & Chris had a link to your kickstart page throughout the Larry campaign on their website, I think it's a pretty low blow to be posting stuff like this.

It saddens me greatly as a fan who wrote to Al Lowe when I was a kid to write this to a fellow Larry superfan who has played a huge part in enabling one of my favorite game franchises to come back.

I'm sure both Replay & Guys From Andromeda are going to both put out amazing games with their own individual charater.

See you in Lost Wages...
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#32 Johnathon

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:36 AM

Wow, you kids really like to just make stuff up, don't you? So, considering all of you don't know any of the real facts about what's been going on, why don't you just ask Scott Murphy why a) they canceled Space Quest 7 B ) why him and pretty much everybody at Sierra fell out of grace with Scott except myself and Leslie Balfour c) when nobody in the entire world would talk to him, I hosted him at my house in Austin, Texas and paid for him to go skydiving because he didn't have the funds d) protected him from this woman named Elizaberh Whitener who was trying to exploit him while he was in Austin, and e) personally encouraged Scott to make amends with Mark, Robin Bradley, and pretty much everybody else he ruined his personal relationships with.

So while you continue to bash me with no evidence at all, just pure conjecture, know this: I'm the one who told Scott he should get back together with Mark and do another Space Quest. Suddenly I never hear from him and the next thing I know I'm getting a cease and desist letter from someone I helped pull out of the gutter, LITERALLY.

Go ahead, rant and rave about me. I realize you guys have nothing better to do, but those are the facts. If you want me to go on a Pod Cast with either one or both of them I'm perfectly willing to do that. This will be my only post.

It's very easy to take cheap shots at somebody behind their back, and it's also pretty low.

If anybody knows me, they know what kind of person I am and how altruistic my intentions are. So go ahead, poke all the fun you want....


Mr. Trowe,

Let me start by saying I respect the fact that you are willing to come here and post, whether to defend yourself or not. And you are right, we know very little in comparison to you, considering your history and relationship with Scott Murphy. I'll even admit, perhaps in my first post just above, regarding this issue, I was being a bit careless and taking a bit of a premature stance, without knowing everything that is going on.

I realize that you said this would be your only post here, but in case you're stopping by at all just to read anything that happens next, please consider the following which I would like to say in response to that post, and it does come from the heart:

You are a public figure, at least to us "kids" you are. Your initial comment as posted on Ken Allen's wall regarding the Two Guys, carried alot of negative vibe in the way it was phrased. It sounded much like jealousy at the fact that a mere fan was getting attention from Scott Murphy, and not yourself. It reeked of envy classic and old as known in every human story and legend. As you put it, in such similar words, 'some guy he doesn't even know, and not [you].'

It would indeed be foolish for us to assume that we know you, nor that we understand your merit vs. unmerit completely, based upon a single comment, and judging what from else you have to say about Scott Murphy, it seems you are convinced that you have your reasons for being upset with him, and Mr. Trowe, I will not challenge that, because I admit that would be nosy and imprudent of me; however...

You consider the way you phrased that comment, and posted it for the whole online community of fans, and try and tell me honestly that you haven't made a public and hurtful mistake.

REALLY, if you're mad at Scott for something he did/didn't do to you, way back when, then keep it between yourself and him, and if he doesn't want to talk about it, that's between the two of you... And, when you DO decide to post things like that in public, don't do so in a way which allows other indications of jealousy or bitterness to creep in, which is directed at a fan, in front of hundreds of fans. We admire and respect Scott Murphy and Mark Crowe, and we ourselves, like Chris Pope, are fans. It is only natural for us to want to jump up and defend him when we see this. I'll admit that some people here have gone overboard and I do not approve of the intensity of their responses, but you must know, for your own good (not excusing our mistakes here at this board towards you, but...), you must know that as a public figure, your degree of unprofessional behavior is naturally more offensive than ours.

Ask yourself, who is it you're more angry with; with whom is your anger most appropriate: Scott Murphy or Chris Pope? Bashing Chris, by subtle implication or mere thoughtless remark, does no good for your reputation with us. And, if your anger with Scott IS appropriate, and yet so long ago and personal to the two of you, is it not such poor etiquette to make a scene in front of all of us, just when Scott Murphy is getting set for a new project we are all greatly looking forward to?

If it's none of our business, don't bring US, into it, Mr. Trowe.

This having been said, I find it very, VERY sad (and I am speaking from the heart, not for the sake of further criticizing you) that you are willing to post old trash about Scott here, in front of all of us, that is really quite personal and hurtful. Even if for the sake of defending yourself, and clarifying what is, in your mind, rational behavior on your part in front of the community, there is NO EXCUSE for this kind of harmful flaunting of personal, sensitive information.

Slander is false, Gossip is true; regardless of which one you claim to be pushing forth about Scott; both are wrong and inappropriate for you to parade. It's quite immature of you, and it shows your friendship for Scott, if I dare infer, is less selfless than desirable. I wonder what he would have to say regarding your "friendship," knowing you're willing to take such cheap shots at him. You should be the better man, and realize the effect you have on Scott publicly, which may be irreversible once you cross a certain line, and wouldn't it be horrible if you came to realize you could never undo the damage you cause to his reputation, having burned it into the minds of the online community, even after you realize you were inappropriate?

One can be right, and at the same time, be a... jackass. Being correct about the facts and going about it in a justified and respectable manner, are two completely different things. I think you're hung up on the fact stage, and being a little thoughtless as to how you're coming across and whom you're affecting.

Very sad, Mr. Trowe, but I do respect your personal knowledge of/with Scott Murphy (assuming any of it is true, and for the record, I do NOT simply out of principal!), and do not wish to dig into that any deeper. I nonetheless stand behind my initial comment regarding the tone of your remark, and of how it was misfired partially at Chris Pope, and I certainly stand behind what I've said here regarding your SAD and distasteful kick in the nuts you've given Scott Murphy, at this public message board, regarding some of the apparently most personal and sensitive information (To Scott Murphy: I respect you very much, am looking forward to your game very much, and I do not believe everything I hear).

I may be somewhat of a kid, Mr. Trowe, and I may be quite unprivy to what you know; but it doesn't take much to know that what you're doing and the way you're doing it is malicious, regardless of if there is ANY good you see in it or of whether you are correct about it to ANY degree. You must act higher than this. I stand behind that, and I encourage you to take these words very seriously if you have any heart.

- Johnathon
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#33 Spikey

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 02:54 AM

One of the best posts I've read in years, Johnathon- kudos Sir.

Paul- you said you won't reply, so OK. And Johnathon has summed it up already. But since I started this topic I'll post my 2 cents. I actually like you, what you've done so far and are trying to achieve. I'm disappointed to hear your, for want of a better word, rants, given that my aim was for the air to be cleared so we could move on from accusations and quiet whispers (divisiveness in the "new Sierra" community).

So you know, I'm a LSL1VGA Kickstarter funder. I pledged $100 (that I don't really have, BTW), because I feel it's worth it and I love Josh and Al to pieces. They've been generous to me over the years, too.

So while you have them, don't waste them. This opportunity will NOT come along again.

I will continue to fund LSL Kickstarter projects and try to do the others. but stay positive. Stay community minded. I understand your frustrations at the Two Guys, even if I don't know the personal situations and complex machinations of your relationships, but they have made decisions and that's the reality of the game. So what's done is done. Calling names will not make you look good or professional, and it certainly won't give them incentive to sign on board with you or Replay in the future.

I am going to put this one down to past frustrations on your part (legitimate or otherwise) and possibly a lack of sleep due to your frenetic work on LSL1/Kickstarter, but if you're serious about a united Sierra community at some point, I probably speak for more than just myself when I say that I don't want to see a repeat. There's just nothing to be gained for you, for them, and for the fans. You've seen the comments in this thread, whether you've enjoyed them or not. They're the future of companies like Replay reviving old Sierra IP's. Listen to them.

I will close by saying that there have been some comments in this thread that could be construed as slanderous or offensive, and as the starter of the topic and a senior member of the Sierra community, I take responsibility for that and apologise. Because I want to see you continue to do great things with the old IP. You're the only person who has been able to get it and do something with it for 20 years. So, kudos to you, Paul. Hey, you liked a comment I made on Facebook. I can't be all bad. Let's work hand in hand to make money and (re)make some great games.
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#34 jfrisby

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 07:18 AM

I don't know whether it's possible, but I'd just like to suggest this thread be wiped for marketing reasons and possible incoming scrutiny in general (on behalf of all parties involved). It's gotten a bit inappropriate all-around for something near the top of the list of threads here.

My apologies to Paul, for my joking-insinuations -- of course I have no idea of the situation. That said, this sounds like a subject that no one should be engaged in publicly, baited with Facebook comments or otherwise, let alone forum threads. Bringing this into the public arena [for any reason], the day after the LSL Kickstarter finished, can only serve to harm Scott & Mark (and really all future Sierra-related-esque efforts).

#35 Troels Pleimert

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 08:51 AM

For my personal sake, I wouldn't like to see this page wiped. Even though we're linked to from the Guys From Andromeda website, this is still a fan forum and free opinions are encouraged.

As for the rest of the debacle, I stand by my sarcastic outbursts. Paul's wording in his post suggests he has no intentions of taking the high road in any of this. I'm glad to see that all of you, however, do.

With that said, I have said my piece and I have nothing more to add.
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#36 drdrslashvohaul

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 11:06 AM

I don't know whether it's possible, but I'd just like to suggest this thread be wiped for marketing reasons and possible incoming scrutiny in general (on behalf of all parties involved). It's gotten a bit inappropriate all-around for something near the top of the list of threads here.


Oh, hells no.

In all seriousness, deleting stuff like this, "covering it up", or trying to pretend things didn't happen is absolutely the wrong way to go. With social media, any comment you make on it is in the public domain. Johnathon summed it up perfectly, in my opinion. While we may not be aware of all the facts, the minute you publish your comments you make it fair game. In my opinion. Even if a lot of that speculation can be hurtful or potentially down-right libellous.

As I said, having read over some of the comments over previous years, I would dare to suggest that there has been a lot of bitching, squabbling and less than gentlemanly behaviour from all sides.

But then it would appear, and this is just an hypothesis, that these guys are humans and may be fallible. But this is unconfirmed by official sources.
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#37 Paul Trowe

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 05:41 PM

Hey gang!!! So I just checked this page again and wow, you guys are really cool!! Why? Because youv'e shown me that I was being a *real* first class dick. For that, I sincerely apologize to everybody. You guys made me realize that bringing stuff up from the past is no way to live your life and mud slinging is just that....dirty, and it doesn't belong. I'm going to take all of your advice and apologize to anybody I've done any harm to. I do, honestly, wish nothing but the best for Mark & Scott. I had a long talk with Josh this morning and he, along with you guys, made me see the light.

So, while everything is in "print" forever, at least I have a chance, before this thread gets wiped, to say I wasn't in my right mind when I wrote that. I was working under 35 days on virtually no sleep. I lashed out at a lot of people that day, this forum included. And for that, again, I'm sincerely sorry.

All I can say is that none of us are perfect and we're all a "work in progress" as one of my mentors says. And I can tell you, nothing negative will ever come out of my mouth about anything these guys are doing EVER again.

You guys are awesome for pointing that out to me and I do owe every single one of you a debt of gratitude. THANK YOU!!! I can't promise I'll have time to check this thread again but at least I got this chance to read all of this and do my best to make amends.

Sincerely,
-Paul Trowe
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#38 pcj

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 05:43 PM

Hey, cool man. Mad props to you for admitting you screwed up. We definitely appreciate it, and you. :)

#39 mjomble

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 06:06 PM

Yay! We fixed Paul Trowe! :D
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#40 Troels Pleimert

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 06:08 PM

Paul, that was really awesome of you and that took balls. I'm glad to see you embrace the collaborative and reconcillatory spirit that permeates this whole new phenomenon. With that, I would like to apologize for my insinuations (in case you get a chance to read this). Let's put the nonsense behind us and concentrate on the future. Everything is possible when you're not afraid to ask for a little help.
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